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JustMe
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posted on 6-2-2008 at 12:17
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EEC Oslo
Hello everyone,
I just started to remember last weekend 
And fortunately most I remember was that it was great seeing you all again, playing the game we all like to play. I had great fun, so did Emily, and
we're totally satisfied with our second spot.
I'd like to thank Badet raceway for a nice race on their little track, which does have a real nice rithm.
Also I'd like to thank everyone we raced with in our heats, for the very sportsman-ship driving 
One bad thing though, people warned me allready, but I still thought no, it should be no problem to put my white box with diffusers etc on my table,
so people could make their choice if I am driving or not around. I'd trust people to come to me later to pay. But they didn't 
Between 10-15 diffusers are missing, as well as the ziploc bag with parts for Oscar Hernandez. I have no idea who took these all and I don't care,
but let me just give you the
Racing was great, and I hope that in the next races the Astons and Corvette's will be more up there, but, according to the lottery-like EEC-rules
that change every 10 minutes, that should be no problem for you anymore 
I saw on JP's site that there be no question of adding ballast to the minimum weight of the car. Now this can be interpreted in two ways! no question
in adding on top of the minimum or to swop weight from bottom to top of the car???
And ehh, you get 15-10-5 gram ballast, but when do you get rid of it? coming in 4th? or does that only take out 5 gram? and then 5th takes out 10 etc
etc????
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Big Al
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 06:15
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Hi Nick,
Well done to you and Emily dude, you guys did really well.
As for the missing parts.. THAT is not nice, and certainly not what
is expected from "our friends", whoever they may be..
To the people who STILL do something like this, guys, what goes around, comes around...
Take cars and stay safe all.
Greetz
Big Al
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fola
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 08:05
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Sorry to read about that Nick.... I had better luck... also less Parts.
My homebrew carbon diffusors and other bits were all still in my box
and the inventory arrived safely in the Slotfabrik..
Guys, that is F U C K E D U P !! and who ever it was should set things
straight. In our hobby trust is a very important factor and I do not wish
to mistrust or be mistrusted due to some f u c k i n A s s h o l e  .
Are we not all FRIENDS???????????
Fola
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piraya_disco
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 08:57
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I put a link to this post on the Norwegian Slot Car forum..
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 10:32
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Thanks
thanks guys, I think they won't do it again after these posts 
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fola
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 10:57
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JustMe
I saw on JP's site that there be no question of adding ballast to the minimum weight of the car. Now this can be interpreted in two ways! no question
in adding on top of the minimum or to swop weight from bottom to top of the car???
And ehh, you get 15-10-5 gram ballast, but when do you get rid of it? coming in 4th? or does that only take out 5 gram? and then 5th takes out 10 etc
etc????
Concerning the weight ballast for the top-3 in both classes we decided that the class-winners neec to add 15 grams of weight (3 pieces of 5 gram
ballast glued at the HIGHEST point of the front bonnet!) against 10 grams of weight (twice 5 grams of ballast glued at the HIGHEST point of the front
bonnet) for the second and the third in each class. One thing should be clear: there van be no question to add 15 or 10 grams to the minimum weight of
the car, but the ballast must be visible under the motor bonnet. The ballast may NOT be removed as long as the cars finish among the top-3 of their
class.
PS. Note that the IOC-list has been updated. [JPVR]l |
What diff will it really make??
Henri's MC12 was almost 20g overweight anyway...... so theoretically he will need to remove 5g!!
fola
Will it ma
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 11:47
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makes a diff
in body play up and down and sideways, gide lenght, anything relating setup causing it to drift or tip over. This is what you test and try to solve
when you have either to little or to much grip.
Same goes for the motor, nobody can test with the actual race setup of a car, cause simply your powersource is not there! 
Combined with the voltage of the track being changed between races make this in my eyes a lottery EEC rulebook.
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slotmad
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 12:02
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ballast weight and weight calculator
Our weight calculator is an attempt to get the obviously different cars more equal to race. In the real FIA GT the Maseratis have an extra weight of
150 kg to the Corvettes, which worked out fine. This is 10 - 15% extra. In our weightcalculator the Masis are about 20 grams heavier than the
Corvettes and Astons. This seems to be almost the same as in real FIA GT. But we forget one big issue. In the past we had several cases that the
sensitivity and durability of our motors was "unaspected". The Masis have already extra weight and with 5 - 15 grams more, the motor will have a
hard time. It will develop more heat, perform less and collapses earlier. This is not the way to go and I protest against the new rule for the next
two races! Besides I think that the Astons and Lambos could have performed better. In qualifying there was not much of a difference. If Slotfabrik had
a better strategy and a bit more stable car, they could have battled for the podium. This is the same with RFH2, if they did not loose some screws.
Jean Pierre suggested to change the car to avoid the extra weight handicap for the winning teams. I will consider this, but I am not willing at the
moment to build a new car just for this reason!
Let us have the discussion now there is still time enough to the next race. By the way, I tested an old spec motor yesterday in my 230 grams car. It
was slow and much heat was measured. More testing is needed.
greetz
Slotmad
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 12:04
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agreed
and I'm NOT building a new car
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fola
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 posted on 7-2-2008 at 14:33
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by slotmadors was "unaspected". The Masis have already extra weight and with 5 - 15 grams more,
the motor will have a hard time. It will develop more heat, perform less and collapses earlier. This is not the way to go and I protest against the
new rule for the next two races! Besides I think that the Astons and Lambos could have performed better. In qualifying there was not much of a
difference. If Slotfabrik had a better strategy and a bit more stable car, they could have battled for the podium. This is the same with RFH2, if they
did not loose some screws. |
It all had nothing to do with strategy we performed quite well, except for on two lanes and only lost laps (about 10) with the tyre change due to the
fact that we were unprepared and still asleep. As you all decided to let sleeping dogs lie.
You had a 40 Lap advantage which you held EASILY because the MASA have the spur and height advantage. The cars were way more balanced and easier to
drive. That is all down to Physical laws. The fastest cars in Quali were the MASA'S and that was not just thanks to Driving skills as was the case of
the Lambos. In Alsdorf the Masas were also the fastest.... Remember Gert's Pole???
Personally, I think that if the spur was limited to say 85 mm the rest of the field would stand a fair chance without the weight handicap.
AND if I had had an MC12 the results would have been different....... but i don't want one.....
Just wanna kill some  
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Rolf
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 16:11
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JustMe
One bad thing though, people warned me allready, but I still thought no, it should be no problem to put my white box with diffusers etc on my table,
so people could make their choice if I am driving or not around. I'd trust people to come to me later to pay. But they didn't
Between 10-15 diffusers are missing, as well as the ziploc bag with parts for Oscar Hernandez. I have no idea who took these all and I don't care,
but let me just give you the |
This is nothing but a F**king shame. We cleaned up the place on Monday and there was no diffuser left in the localities, so they are unfortunately not
left behind either.
Rgds
Rolf
I'll sleep when I'm dead
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Whitemouse
Posts: 90
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 16:51
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I agree with Fola about the performance advantages of the MC12, not that it mattered a lot for us.
We managed to screw up all by ourself, or almost, by choosing the wrong setup/chassis in the M-Racing Agon EvoI, we should have raced the M-Racing C1
Evo instead.
Some of the reason was that what seemed to be good grip on friday night turned into ice by saturday qualifying. I suspect this was due to the constant
wiping of the track with the magnetic "Swiffer" that the Oslo dudes used. This of course ruined the grip levels. We did, on new Procomp 3 untampered
with rubber, constant 6.0 times in lanes 3, 4, 5 and 6 and 6.1s in 1 and 2 during friday practise. Yet could not get below 6.38 come qualifying.
During the race we lost about 20 laps to essential setup changes that had to be done during our first stint, to make the car a little more driveable.
But still, the car was a handfull, because we had opted for the wrong chassis/setup.
But, and this is what really is a shame, I saw three different teams use tire additive/grip enhancer or whatever you want to call it. The stuff was
applied during lane changes by a team mate or during servicing. Unacceptable or??
We would probably not have ended our race very much higher in the result, due to our setup screw-up. But it still fails to impress me what some teams
will do.
As Fola I will never ever enter a MC12, but thats just me beeing me. On the other hand I am not sure that reducing the spur to 85 mm will matter much,
but I could be wrong.
I fully understand that the MC12 boys are annoyed by the sudden weight penalty beeing given to them, and maybe the right sollution here would be to
give the Corvettes and Astons an even bigger weight reduction in condjunction with the reduction of the spur of the MC12. This could be done via the
weight calculator, keeping the data for the MC12 but changing the Corvs and Astons - just a thought.
Anyway, WMR and WMR Jr. had a very enjoyable time with some great fighting during the race. OK, we would have liked to be further up the field, and
work is allready in the process to obtain that goal for the next race, but thank you to the organisers, Glenn, Børge, Tamar et al, and everyone else
who raced for a good show.
Cheers,
Paal Hanson
Vikings Scaleracing Club, Frederikssund, Denmark
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sloefspeed
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 17:02
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Hi guys (and girl),
Adding the extra ballast will definately kill the motors much sooner than expected. Now that we finally have decent motors, is that really what "the
powers that be" want to achieve? I don't think so.... Especially if the sponsoring budget is less than expected, the purchase of more motors (or new
armatures) is something that can be avoided. Furthermore adding weight high up in the car will only make it tip over more easily, in every corner on
every lap creating the possiblity of major carnage to the cars involved. With all of the effort involved in building these little marvels (not
especially our car, but the others...) this is not the way we want to go neighter! We could have the winners and 2nd and 3rd gear up differently for
example, or reduce their maximum spur width... Gearing shorter would make them a little slower down the straights, reducing spur width would make them
slide more at the back, but not tip over!
Just my 2 cents worth... At least we could think about other solutions than dragging ballast around the track. Hey, it's a race car, not a truck!
CU soon
Raymond
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fola
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 18:43
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Tyre tuning is not LEGAL and offending teams MUST be reported and if found guilty - disqualified.
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 19:35
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guys
reducing spur width to 85 will be the most ugliest thing you have seen on a 88+ Maser!!!
Reducing weight for the Aston and Corvette wont make them quicker, but will cause even more instabilaty!
AND, gearing a heavier car shorter (more accel and brake) is just what a heavier Maser needs to be quicker
MY answer to this, although it would need some continues checking, is making 'restricktors' for either the Maser or the 1st, 2nd and 3th finisher,
which take out 1.0, 0.7 and 0.3 Volt from a team. These restrictors should be plugged between controller and track.
Keep on 
By the way, Tamar's Lambo was quicker than my Maser before we went to Oslo
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fola
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 20:27
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JustMe
reducing spur width to 85 will be the most ugliest thing you have seen on a 88+ Maser!!!
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no, the most ugliest thing is a Masa with a 83mm spur as driven in the German DTSW....... Pretty car, stupid rules and regs....
Your points are well taken.
and yes... i built the MC12 for a friend it is the Std Ejan body (89mm wide) with FLAT Lexan windows.........
fola
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 20:47
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By the way
I read that one can switch cars in the same class, so if I'd switch to the #2 Maser Vita I'm balast free??? What a bullshit, you as a team collect
points and ballast, not a certain car or number. It's the drivers and tuners that count. It's not desireable that one should build three cars for
the EEC, just to be ballast free everytime
If only the more expected winners would be put on the Astons and Corvettes from the beginning and the subtop teams would have the Masers, problems
would be much easier to solve. Also, the Kremers are favorites always, and I spent months in testing, and all of a sudden it's down to it being a
Maser? Tamar's Lambo was quick but had bad luck, and the other Lambo was fast as well.
With all do respect, apart from Fola there are no real favorites on anything but a Maser, so opposition from anything but a Maser is low to start off
with!
So, combined with the favorites 'edge', and the advantage of being a Maser, the Masers will be invinceble. No matter what our 'rule' makers do.
Solutions I've seen so far will only kill the motor.
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fola
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 21:15
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You tested for months but "only " finished 10 Laps ahead of Place 3.... normally you are much further ahead.
I really do feel that the masas are invincible.... almost.
I am sure I can kill one more... or two....
Seriously, maybe the voltage restrictor would be fair/better... there is no sense in destroying the motors.
I am happy to race what i have and think that car/class chage is bullshit. Race Alliance would never borrow a Ferrari....
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 21:54
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only 10 laps
Yeah I know only 10 laps, but that was being in control. Knowing soon
that if we could achieve to be 0,1 sec a lap faster than the Kremers (nearly impossible), we still wouldn't win. So then I started to look back, at
Henry and Fola, being close at that moment. I just 'controlled Fola's and Henry's speed by making Emily to match their laps in her lanes on a calm
pace and I steadily gained a few laps in my lanes, we could have done 10-15 laps maybe more, but there was no point in trying to push, result would
have been the same.
And Henry just built a very good car 
Just to let you know, I'm not a Maser fan at all, I just wanted to finally race a actual Maserati a few months ago and then I signed up for the EEC
with a car I already had, so I didn't have any stress in building a new car 
I'd be happy to take the challenge in the Carsport Holland Corvette, but for the EEC the cars are fixed and I will certainly not build a new car, by
principle, and at the worlds I just wanna try and win, no matter which car, so there I'll take the Maser.
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Whitemouse
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 22:24
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I have no illusions about making the top five, must of our guys spend way to much time doing other things than racing slot cars. We have fun joining
the EEC, and hopefully we will make it into the top 6-8 if we get our calculations right.
Even though we are merely the "field filler" I do have an opinion!
I´m neither pro or con the ballast weight, I do believe that the MC12 is a superior car in the EEC. Whether that should be punished by adding weight.
Hmm, I will leave that to the powers that be. But the weight calculator is not the perfect equaliser, OK it works well with the Lambo, the Aston and
the Corvette, but the MC12 is in a class of its own at the moment.
What to do?? Race on and do our utmost to be better next time out!! And I am sure that there will be more cars mixing it with the MC12 at the next
race.
If you look at the driver quality, you have to say that there is not much to choose from in the top 6, and the drivers are then difference between
making it or breaking it.
Mark and I would like to pick up some points, to do that we will have to raise our game. That is what we are working on.
Penalty or no penalty for the MC12s will not change that.
Good luck to all of you whatever you drive......
Cheers,
Paal Hanson
Vikings Scaleracing Club, Frederikssund, Denmark
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JustMe
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posted on 7-2-2008 at 22:32
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Any opinion counts!
That's why we have the forum
Another thing I realised:
1st 2nd and 3rd get a weight penalty, by adding ballast in the highest point of the bonnet. Well now, a Masers bonnet is much lower than any others
Astons would be more handicapped should they get
ballast then any other car would be (in GT1)
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Big Al
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posted on 8-2-2008 at 06:13
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Guys,
been following this thread with Interest. I remember the Mazzas being fast from Barcelona in 2006 already. Surely some people would have picked up on
this from then already??
I believe something DOES need to be done to "reign back" the Mazzas because of their obvious advantage. Higher positioned weight could be the
answer, as well as an 85mm Max rear Spur width, if that's sufficient to make the car "more difficult to drive", then simple, the drivers need to
tread more carefully, vs being able to run them at the pace they have been run.
The Gearing, (by 1 or 2 teeth) to slow the top speed could also work, irrespective of what Nick says that that is just what they need. The point is to
slow them down marginally to make the field more competitive, otherwise, what's the point?? I, unlike Pal, will not simply "make up the numbers/fill
the field" if I know the front runners will just be Mazzas.
If the weight limit hurts the motor, tough, then you Pit and replace it when needed, afterall, you'll have a big enough lead to do that.
Voltage chokes will be much more difficult to control, unless it is in the form of a diode soldered between motor and braids by Tech Control.
I think Tamar and Nick and Henri etc should take Nick's current Spec cars to the closest track, and try a number of the following suggestions one at
a time, and Nick to drive the car as constantly as possible, and then choose whichever system reigns back Nicks times by .3 to .5 of a second
consistantly, and that becomes the "Mazza" handicap, simple.
While we're all missing the point that currently, a GT2 car is leading, the concerns of the mazza, (And possibly a Saleen) in the future of this
class are very well clear, and need to be rectified sooner, rather than later. You WILL have entry's fall away if the domination continues, just like
it has in other classes of model car racing. If drivers, top class or mid field, have absolutely no chance of being "competitive" in an event
because of a glaring domination of a car, then you WILL see those drivers/cars stop entering, and the SERIES will be hurt.
It's happened before, all over the world.
Regards
Big Al
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Whitemouse
Posts: 90
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posted on 8-2-2008 at 10:20
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This year is the first for the EEC, and hopefully there will be an EEC in 2009 as well. It is a great series with some really cool guys, and a lot of
talent in both the driving and technical department.
I have taken the position of doing 2008 as a trial. I have so little time on my hands due to our company growing and pushing me away from spending
more hours on slotracing. I also have a "small" family with 4 kids pushing me!
Still, we decided to try and develop the M-Racing chassis into a competitive entity. This alone will take time, and we made some bad moves in Oslo
that cost us a better result. I don´t gripe about that, because we will do better next time out.
So Big Al, even I hate to bring up the numbers, I hate loosing, but I have to be realistic. And comming head to head with the Pros and Semi Pros is
tough.
I see two MC12s in the field that our team should be able to be competitive with, one we should be able to beat fair and square, the other one we
might have to fight a bit more with. Both will hardly get into a position of getting ballast, so the fight will have to be fair and square.
Whatever, we need to raise our game, to be competitive with them. So for now I am really not that concerned with ballast or no ballast. I understand
why the top guys are. But if we are to make an equalising rule it has to be according to the KISS principle! KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid! Annything
but the ballast rule is NOT simple!
So, what to do? Hell I dont know, but I am glad I´m not in the rule makers panths.
Cheers,
Paal Hanson
Vikings Scaleracing Club, Frederikssund, Denmark
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JustMe
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posted on 8-2-2008 at 13:26
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Thanks for all your replies
Nice to see that I'm not alone here
I'll ask the Gabester tonight if its possible to make a kind of 'choke of power' using a resistor, which will have to be soldered in the car, like
you had years ago on 1/32 cars. (I don't know anything about electronics) Maybe this could be an easy way to make the Masers slower.
I/we should test then on how much powerloss is needed. I'd propose to only do it to the 1st 2nd and 3rd placed teams, cause (fortunately) not all 6
Masers ended up 1-2-3-4-5-6.
But yet again, I've offered testing for the organisers numerous times, but nothing was needed
My thoughts on a 2009 EEC for the cars is to do the car assignments like this:
The organiser (I volunteer ) puts every team on a specific model,
Corvette or Aston or Maser etc etc. hereby looking closely at the latest achieved results like the Worlds 2007 and 2008, the last EEC and thier
growing potential. When these assignments are done, post it on the net, and ask every team to reply if they agree with all assignments. Now, we being
reasonable people should be able to make a fair assignment if all teams
have a (small) say in what they race and what others race.
Just a quick and loose example:
Kremers Corvette/Aston
Kremers 2 Corvette/Aston
RFH 1 Corvette/Aston
SFRT Aston
Virage Maser
RFH 2 Corvette/Aston
Gecko Lambo/Maser
Franspeed Lambo
Kaitserari Lambo
ZMachine Maser
Badet Maser
DART Lambo
etc etc etc
It'll take some moving around and switching, but if we/I start this in time it should be no problem. Once as many team as possible are happy with the
cars we'll start giving out the specific liveries on a model, this can also be done freely, some people are more attached to a certain livery than
other people.
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Rolf
Posts: 90
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posted on 8-2-2008 at 14:01
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You must also remember that there is a GT2 class going her... And as some other also have pointed out, the overall standing in EEC is led by a GT2 car
You also have to think about the GT2 class. Today its only two types of cars the Ferrari and the Porches. Although the Porsche of Badet 2 was on the
podium in Oslo I’m quite sure bad set up for the following Ferraries has something to do with that. Badet 2 did a great effort, and are good racers
too but all things equal, if that’s possible at all, the Ferraris will be as dominant in GT2 as the Massas are in GT1.
Although my friends of Badet 2 are good racers and also know their set up, especially on our home track, my prediction is that they would have equal
chances to a snowball in H*ll if they were put up against more well balanced Farraris in Belgium. With the penalty ballast (or a resistor) it will not
be very fun at all for the Porsche.
Rolf
I'll sleep when I'm dead
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