JustMe
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posted on 23-6-2008 at 14:55
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Clarification wanted: chassis choice
Like I said in another post, I recently bought a Seif chassis. It was intended to be raced at a race end of the year, but now I wanna race it at the
Worlds. It is available at Ralph Seif, and therefor I assume it is allowed. Right?
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Checa
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posted on 23-6-2008 at 16:39
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Very important that Nick say.
The manufactured chasis allowed can be buy in stores, and minimum number manufactured chasis around 100, I think.
Thats my opinion.
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Whitemouse
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posted on 23-6-2008 at 18:02
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If for some reason there has to be a minimum quantity for a commercial chassis to be allowed, why not just turn it all into DPM/EPC?????
OK, I am sorry for that punch in the ribs, but to sugest a minimum quantity someone needs to be able to prove that there has acctually been
manufactured and assembled 100 chassis!
Now, as the history books shows in 1:1 racing this is close to imposible. Porsche had 25 of their 917s parked for a picture back in 1969 and the CSI
approved it, even though it is evident from the picture that only a handful of the cars was actually finished. Ferrari has done the same stunts
numerous times.
So, if I can just get my Photoshop working I will very easily "manufacture" 100 chassis for a picture to prove they are legal.
And next question! How many shops must have the chassis, online or store, to make it legal within the rules!?!
Sorry guys but a rule like that is going to be pure crap and imposible to police!
A commercial chassis is a chassis manufactured in a series, i.e. more than one chassis. It is availabel direct form the manufacturer or in webshops.
Thats it and thats that - In my humble opinion!
Cheers,
Paal Hanson
Vikings Scaleracing Club, Frederikssund, Denmark
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fola
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posted on 23-6-2008 at 18:40
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Agree with Pal even though I produce my own Chassis and well over 50 have been built, i think that Mass Produced is a totally different thing.....
"Handcrafted/custom" has little or nothing to do with production of, in and for masses.
The availability should be a factor also _ Commercially available.
but hey..... chew on this !!
madness
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marco
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posted on 23-6-2008 at 19:39
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fola
Agree with Pal even though I produce my own Chassis and well over 50 have been built, i think that Mass Produced is a totally different thing.....
"Handcrafted/custom" has little or nothing to do with production of, in and for masses.
The availability should be a factor also _ Commercially available.
but hey..... chew on this !!
madness
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What we see here is clear evidence and clinical proof of an illness that may not have a known cure. Are those cylinders lined with ceramic?
Very, very sick puppy.
Mass produced and commercially available . . . you are both spot on. The new MOMO XSW07 chassis that surfaced at last year's Worlds is a good case
in point. Even with some VERY good connections I came up dry . . . not that it would have mattered in my hands . . . but it clearly was not available
to all racers. And the availability issue needs to be REAL . . . including supply issues . . . which have surrounded the independent fronts, cambered
or otherwise, for the SLP chassis . . . this year.
The availability issue also needs to be international in reach . . . or it will make it doubly difficult to develop and increase worldwide
representation at IMCA and the World Championships. I don't think we have any major issues to date . . . but you can see the potential starting to
surface.
Personally, I am both interested and a little apprehensive about the 'experimental' chassis factor that has been added to this year's Championship.
It seems a little askew of the F430 Challenge Series which is spec at 1:1 . . . and perhaps better suited to an LMP class of cars. But I am not an
expert in these matters. Will it play a role in seeding the grid for the actual World Championships? Does it put an unfair advantage in the hands of
people with access to production and deeper pockets? At the end of the day, I do think it is worth the trial this year to see what and who
surfaces.
Mark Campbell
Scale Racing America
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tamar
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 00:33
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my 2 cents
Gents
May I suggest that as model racers, you do what you do best and look at 1/1 racing for inspiration
In general a commercially available item is coupled to a minimum number of produced parts, but this for such a nice market as modelcar racing is a
hard to define criteria.
In using the term commercially available you should also ask the question commercially available to whom.
As a set of rules is there to make an fair competition possible so it would be logical to say that a chassis should be "commercially" available to
all those who participate.
You could also use a criteria as used in F1 during the era when the rules still allowed multiple trye manufacturers.
Those who wanted to have their products used in F1 (Bridgestone, Michelin, Goodyear etc etc.) Had the obligation to supply at least half of the
grid.
Such a requirement could be asked of any party that would want to introduce any part/chassis to the competition.
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marco
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 02:58
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by tamar . . . You could also use a criteria as used in F1 during the era when the rules still
allowed multiple trye manufacturers. Those who wanted to have their products used in F1 (Bridgestone, Michelin, Goodyear etc etc.) Had the obligation
to supply at least half of the grid. Such a requirement could be asked of any party that would want to introduce any part/chassis to the competition.
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Yes, this would be a much better measure of availability. And perhaps this condition of homologation should be extended to ALL confirmed racers for
national and world championships. As with F1 . . . the only remaining loophole as I see it is the all to familiar matter of . . . $$$$$$$ . . . or
should I say €€€€€€€€. Manufacturer X could offer their latest and the greatest at astronomical prices . . . with no real intention
of general availability . . . but with every intent to supply at no cost to a 'works' team. Even in my short tenure I have seen this 'variation'
of the supply chain at work. Now where do we go? .
Mark
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Keld Hoefler
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 07:47
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If the chassis has to be commecial to ex. the ½ grid, you also has to set a date for it.
ex. 30 days before the race all chassis and parts allowed are being published to the mass.
not fun to get the chassis the day before the race, no time to set up and test.
about the price for it, set a limit as maks. 5x the normal price for commercial chassis, it is much work to be done making small series part, and
therefore much more expensive.
Keld
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Massiven
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 13:05
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hi folks,
I can confirm that Ralph's chassis is already sold more than 50 times across Europe. The chassis can even be bought through an official
web-slotcar-shop. But I can also cofirm, that the "Seifen-Kiste" ain't a chassis for touring cars like the F430. I'ts developed for Group C cars
run in the SLP challenges across Germany, Switerland, Austria and newly in Netherlands (SLP Euregio).
cya,
de Massiven
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fola
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 13:39
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| Quote: | Originally posted by marco
Personally, I am both interested and a little apprehensive about the 'experimental' chassis factor that has been added to this year's Championship.
It seems a little askew of the F430 Challenge Series which is spec at 1:1 . . . and perhaps better suited to an LMP class of cars. But I am not an
expert in these matters. Will it play a role in seeding the grid for the actual World Championships? Does it put an unfair advantage in the hands of
people with access to production and deeper pockets? At the end of the day, I do think it is worth the trial this year to see what and who
surfaces
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I agree totally, or at least almost with mark and of course with Massiven,
The experimental chassis is definitely more suited to Prototypes and less to the Challenge series cars which are in 1:1 much closer to standard
production cars (Mass produced and commercially available).
The "experimental" Chassis we all know, have and some of us produce, have been mainly developed for Group C and Prototype cars for SLP type racing,
low, long and wide. I have experimented with smaller cars in the DSC and in the DTSW series and the Chassis run well but not really better than the
Scholer, S24,SLP or a well prepared MoMo.
I seriously doubt that there will be any experimental F430's at the worlds. And for future Races it might be an option. I will deifnately be
developing further in the direction and will be more than willing to share with any one for a small contribution. The goal here is to develop the
hobby and to move on to new levels... we are the worlds champions right??
madness
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JustMe
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posted on 24-6-2008 at 16:19
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I think we all more or less agree
but I also think it should be adressed by the organisation. I agree on making (selfmade) chassis for LMP cars, cause in my view these should be the
quickest machines on a slotracing track.
I think if one doesn't want chassis like Seif's in the championship, one should have a very good reason for that, cause like Mike pointed out, these
chassis are widely available. Or lets just say, just as available as a Plafit, which also sometimes have their problems getting people far away their
stuff.
It is true that the chassis I now have suits GroupC and LMP's better, but actually that doesn't really matter. What if some genius wins with a
'non-suitable' rally chassis or something? point remains the same....
Cheers
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jeem
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 posted on 16-7-2008 at 15:54
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What type of chassis?
Use of "mass production" chassis in actual conditions is really bad decision.
There are only two possible and correct solutions: free chassis or only homologated chassis w/o modifications.
When we are talking about imca racing cars - it means MODEL cars - realistic look. We have to spend more time on body finishing instead of chassis
tunning like in ISRA, etc... From this point of view I prefere for IMCA only 1 simple homologated chassis w/o any modification and prefere body look,
etc.
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Massiven
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posted on 17-7-2008 at 08:33
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et voilà
IMCA turns into a 2nd constructor championship. I don't think that this is, what the IMCA responsibles want. IMHO chassis should be free for each
racing series, no matter of FIA GT, LMP oder challenge series like the Ferrari 430 Challenge. Only if you have the perfect body (not only the look but
also things like, weight, ballance etc.) and the perfect chassis, you'll have a chance to fight for the titel.
Cheers,
de Massiven aka. Mike
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jeem
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posted on 17-7-2008 at 10:31
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with free chassis this have a sense.
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