Hello everyone,

I just started to remember last weekend
And fortunately most I remember was that it was great seeing you all again, playing the game we all like to play. I had great fun, so did Emily, and we're totally satisfied with our second spot.

I'd like to thank Badet raceway for a nice race on their little track, which does have a real nice rithm.
Also I'd like to thank everyone we raced with in our heats, for the very sportsman-ship driving

One bad thing though, people warned me allready, but I still thought no, it should be no problem to put my white box with diffusers etc on my table, so people could make their choice if I am driving or not around. I'd trust people to come to me later to pay. But they didn't
Between 10-15 diffusers are missing, as well as the ziploc bag with parts for Oscar Hernandez. I have no idea who took these all and I don't care, but let me just give you the

Racing was great, and I hope that in the next races the Astons and Corvette's will be more up there, but, according to the lottery-like EEC-rules that change every 10 minutes, that should be no problem for you anymore

I saw on JP's site that there be no question of adding ballast to the minimum weight of the car. Now this can be interpreted in two ways! no question in adding on top of the minimum or to swop weight from bottom to top of the car???
And ehh, you get 15-10-5 gram ballast, but when do you get rid of it? coming in 4th? or does that only take out 5 gram? and then 5th takes out 10 etc etc????

Hi Nick,

Well done to you and Emily dude, you guys did really well.
As for the missing parts.. THAT is not nice, and certainly not what is expected from "our friends", whoever they may be..
To the people who STILL do something like this, guys, what goes around, comes around...

Take cars and stay safe all.

Greetz

Big Al

Sorry to read about that Nick.... I had better luck... also less Parts.
My homebrew carbon diffusors and other bits were all still in my box
and the inventory arrived safely in the Slotfabrik..
Guys, that is F U C K E D U P !! and who ever it was should set things
straight. In our hobby trust is a very important factor and I do not wish
to mistrust or be mistrusted due to some f u c k i n A s s h o l e .
Are we not all FRIENDS???????????

Fola

I put a link to this post on the Norwegian Slot Car forum..

thanks guys, I think they won't do it again after these posts

Quote:

Originally posted by JustMe I saw on JP's site that there be no question of adding ballast to the minimum weight of the car. Now this can be interpreted in two ways! no question in adding on top of the minimum or to swop weight from bottom to top of the car??? And ehh, you get 15-10-5 gram ballast, but when do you get rid of it? coming in 4th? or does that only take out 5 gram? and then 5th takes out 10 etc etc???? Concerning the weight ballast for the top-3 in both classes we decided that the class-winners neec to add 15 grams of weight (3 pieces of 5 gram ballast glued at the HIGHEST point of the front bonnet!) against 10 grams of weight (twice 5 grams of ballast glued at the HIGHEST point of the front bonnet) for the second and the third in each class. One thing should be clear: there van be no question to add 15 or 10 grams to the minimum weight of the car, but the ballast must be visible under the motor bonnet. The ballast may NOT be removed as long as the cars finish among the top-3 of their class. PS. Note that the IOC-list has been updated. [JPVR]l

in body play up and down and sideways, gide lenght, anything relating setup causing it to drift or tip over. This is what you test and try to solve when you have either to little or to much grip.

Same goes for the motor, nobody can test with the actual race setup of a car, cause simply your powersource is not there!
Combined with the voltage of the track being changed between races make this in my eyes a lottery EEC rulebook.

Our weight calculator is an attempt to get the obviously different cars more equal to race. In the real FIA GT the Maseratis have an extra weight of 150 kg to the Corvettes, which worked out fine. This is 10 - 15% extra. In our weightcalculator the Masis are about 20 grams heavier than the Corvettes and Astons. This seems to be almost the same as in real FIA GT. But we forget one big issue. In the past we had several cases that the sensitivity and durability of our motors was "unaspected". The Masis have already extra weight and with 5 - 15 grams more, the motor will have a hard time. It will develop more heat, perform less and collapses earlier. This is not the way to go and I protest against the new rule for the next two races! Besides I think that the Astons and Lambos could have performed better. In qualifying there was not much of a difference. If Slotfabrik had a better strategy and a bit more stable car, they could have battled for the podium. This is the same with RFH2, if they did not loose some screws.

Jean Pierre suggested to change the car to avoid the extra weight handicap for the winning teams. I will consider this, but I am not willing at the moment to build a new car just for this reason!

Let us have the discussion now there is still time enough to the next race. By the way, I tested an old spec motor yesterday in my 230 grams car. It was slow and much heat was measured. More testing is needed.

greetz

and I'm NOT building a new car

Quote:

Originally posted by JustMe One bad thing though, people warned me allready, but I still thought no, it should be no problem to put my white box with diffusers etc on my table, so people could make their choice if I am driving or not around. I'd trust people to come to me later to pay. But they didn't Between 10-15 diffusers are missing, as well as the ziploc bag with parts for Oscar Hernandez. I have no idea who took these all and I don't care, but let me just give you the

I agree with Fola about the performance advantages of the MC12, not that it mattered a lot for us.

We managed to screw up all by ourself, or almost, by choosing the wrong setup/chassis in the M-Racing Agon EvoI, we should have raced the M-Racing C1 Evo instead.

Some of the reason was that what seemed to be good grip on friday night turned into ice by saturday qualifying. I suspect this was due to the constant wiping of the track with the magnetic "Swiffer" that the Oslo dudes used. This of course ruined the grip levels. We did, on new Procomp 3 untampered with rubber, constant 6.0 times in lanes 3, 4, 5 and 6 and 6.1s in 1 and 2 during friday practise. Yet could not get below 6.38 come qualifying.

During the race we lost about 20 laps to essential setup changes that had to be done during our first stint, to make the car a little more driveable. But still, the car was a handfull, because we had opted for the wrong chassis/setup.

But, and this is what really is a shame, I saw three different teams use tire additive/grip enhancer or whatever you want to call it. The stuff was applied during lane changes by a team mate or during servicing. Unacceptable or??

We would probably not have ended our race very much higher in the result, due to our setup screw-up. But it still fails to impress me what some teams will do.

As Fola I will never ever enter a MC12, but thats just me beeing me. On the other hand I am not sure that reducing the spur to 85 mm will matter much, but I could be wrong.

I fully understand that the MC12 boys are annoyed by the sudden weight penalty beeing given to them, and maybe the right sollution here would be to give the Corvettes and Astons an even bigger weight reduction in condjunction with the reduction of the spur of the MC12. This could be done via the weight calculator, keeping the data for the MC12 but changing the Corvs and Astons - just a thought.

Anyway, WMR and WMR Jr. had a very enjoyable time with some great fighting during the race. OK, we would have liked to be further up the field, and work is allready in the process to obtain that goal for the next race, but thank you to the organisers, Glenn, Børge, Tamar et al, and everyone else who raced for a good show.

Hi guys (and girl),

Adding the extra ballast will definately kill the motors much sooner than expected. Now that we finally have decent motors, is that really what "the powers that be" want to achieve? I don't think so.... Especially if the sponsoring budget is less than expected, the purchase of more motors (or new armatures) is something that can be avoided. Furthermore adding weight high up in the car will only make it tip over more easily, in every corner on every lap creating the possiblity of major carnage to the cars involved. With all of the effort involved in building these little marvels (not especially our car, but the others...) this is not the way we want to go neighter! We could have the winners and 2nd and 3rd gear up differently for example, or reduce their maximum spur width... Gearing shorter would make them a little slower down the straights, reducing spur width would make them slide more at the back, but not tip over!
Just my 2 cents worth... At least we could think about other solutions than dragging ballast around the track. Hey, it's a race car, not a truck!

CU soon

Raymond

Tyre tuning is not LEGAL and offending teams MUST be reported and if found guilty - disqualified.

reducing spur width to 85 will be the most ugliest thing you have seen on a 88+ Maser!!!

Reducing weight for the Aston and Corvette wont make them quicker, but will cause even more instabilaty!

AND, gearing a heavier car shorter (more accel and brake) is just what a heavier Maser needs to be quicker

MY answer to this, although it would need some continues checking, is making 'restricktors' for either the Maser or the 1st, 2nd and 3th finisher, which take out 1.0, 0.7 and 0.3 Volt from a team. These restrictors should be plugged between controller and track.
Keep on

By the way, Tamar's Lambo was quicker than my Maser before we went to Oslo

Quote:

Originally posted by JustMe reducing spur width to 85 will be the most ugliest thing you have seen on a 88+ Maser!!!

I read that one can switch cars in the same class, so if I'd switch to the #2 Maser Vita I'm balast free??? What a bullshit, you as a team collect points and ballast, not a certain car or number. It's the drivers and tuners that count. It's not desireable that one should build three cars for the EEC, just to be ballast free everytime

If only the more expected winners would be put on the Astons and Corvettes from the beginning and the subtop teams would have the Masers, problems would be much easier to solve. Also, the Kremers are favorites always, and I spent months in testing, and all of a sudden it's down to it being a Maser? Tamar's Lambo was quick but had bad luck, and the other Lambo was fast as well.
With all do respect, apart from Fola there are no real favorites on anything but a Maser, so opposition from anything but a Maser is low to start off with!
So, combined with the favorites 'edge', and the advantage of being a Maser, the Masers will be invinceble. No matter what our 'rule' makers do. Solutions I've seen so far will only kill the motor.

You tested for months but "only " finished 10 Laps ahead of Place 3.... normally you are much further ahead.
I really do feel that the masas are invincible.... almost.
I am sure I can kill one more... or two....
Seriously, maybe the voltage restrictor would be fair/better... there is no sense in destroying the motors.
I am happy to race what i have and think that car/class chage is bullshit. Race Alliance would never borrow a Ferrari....

Yeah I know only 10 laps, but that was being in control. Knowing soon that if we could achieve to be 0,1 sec a lap faster than the Kremers (nearly impossible), we still wouldn't win. So then I started to look back, at Henry and Fola, being close at that moment. I just 'controlled Fola's and Henry's speed by making Emily to match their laps in her lanes on a calm pace and I steadily gained a few laps in my lanes, we could have done 10-15 laps maybe more, but there was no point in trying to push, result would have been the same.
And Henry just built a very good car

Just to let you know, I'm not a Maser fan at all, I just wanted to finally race a actual Maserati a few months ago and then I signed up for the EEC with a car I already had, so I didn't have any stress in building a new car

I'd be happy to take the challenge in the Carsport Holland Corvette, but for the EEC the cars are fixed and I will certainly not build a new car, by principle, and at the worlds I just wanna try and win, no matter which car, so there I'll take the Maser.

I have no illusions about making the top five, must of our guys spend way to much time doing other things than racing slot cars. We have fun joining the EEC, and hopefully we will make it into the top 6-8 if we get our calculations right.

Even though we are merely the "field filler" I do have an opinion!

I´m neither pro or con the ballast weight, I do believe that the MC12 is a superior car in the EEC. Whether that should be punished by adding weight. Hmm, I will leave that to the powers that be. But the weight calculator is not the perfect equaliser, OK it works well with the Lambo, the Aston and the Corvette, but the MC12 is in a class of its own at the moment.

What to do?? Race on and do our utmost to be better next time out!! And I am sure that there will be more cars mixing it with the MC12 at the next race.

If you look at the driver quality, you have to say that there is not much to choose from in the top 6, and the drivers are then difference between making it or breaking it.

Mark and I would like to pick up some points, to do that we will have to raise our game. That is what we are working on.

Penalty or no penalty for the MC12s will not change that.

Good luck to all of you whatever you drive......

That's why we have the forum

Another thing I realised:
1st 2nd and 3rd get a weight penalty, by adding ballast in the highest point of the bonnet. Well now, a Masers bonnet is much lower than any others Astons would be more handicapped should they get ballast then any other car would be (in GT1)

Guys,

been following this thread with Interest. I remember the Mazzas being fast from Barcelona in 2006 already. Surely some people would have picked up on this from then already??

I believe something DOES need to be done to "reign back" the Mazzas because of their obvious advantage. Higher positioned weight could be the answer, as well as an 85mm Max rear Spur width, if that's sufficient to make the car "more difficult to drive", then simple, the drivers need to tread more carefully, vs being able to run them at the pace they have been run.

The Gearing, (by 1 or 2 teeth) to slow the top speed could also work, irrespective of what Nick says that that is just what they need. The point is to slow them down marginally to make the field more competitive, otherwise, what's the point?? I, unlike Pal, will not simply "make up the numbers/fill the field" if I know the front runners will just be Mazzas.

If the weight limit hurts the motor, tough, then you Pit and replace it when needed, afterall, you'll have a big enough lead to do that.
Voltage chokes will be much more difficult to control, unless it is in the form of a diode soldered between motor and braids by Tech Control.

I think Tamar and Nick and Henri etc should take Nick's current Spec cars to the closest track, and try a number of the following suggestions one at a time, and Nick to drive the car as constantly as possible, and then choose whichever system reigns back Nicks times by .3 to .5 of a second consistantly, and that becomes the "Mazza" handicap, simple.

While we're all missing the point that currently, a GT2 car is leading, the concerns of the mazza, (And possibly a Saleen) in the future of this class are very well clear, and need to be rectified sooner, rather than later. You WILL have entry's fall away if the domination continues, just like it has in other classes of model car racing. If drivers, top class or mid field, have absolutely no chance of being "competitive" in an event because of a glaring domination of a car, then you WILL see those drivers/cars stop entering, and the SERIES will be hurt.

It's happened before, all over the world.

Regards

Big Al

This year is the first for the EEC, and hopefully there will be an EEC in 2009 as well. It is a great series with some really cool guys, and a lot of talent in both the driving and technical department.

I have taken the position of doing 2008 as a trial. I have so little time on my hands due to our company growing and pushing me away from spending more hours on slotracing. I also have a "small" family with 4 kids pushing me!

Still, we decided to try and develop the M-Racing chassis into a competitive entity. This alone will take time, and we made some bad moves in Oslo that cost us a better result. I don´t gripe about that, because we will do better next time out.

So Big Al, even I hate to bring up the numbers, I hate loosing, but I have to be realistic. And comming head to head with the Pros and Semi Pros is tough.

I see two MC12s in the field that our team should be able to be competitive with, one we should be able to beat fair and square, the other one we might have to fight a bit more with. Both will hardly get into a position of getting ballast, so the fight will have to be fair and square.

Whatever, we need to raise our game, to be competitive with them. So for now I am really not that concerned with ballast or no ballast. I understand why the top guys are. But if we are to make an equalising rule it has to be according to the KISS principle! KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid! Annything but the ballast rule is NOT simple!

So, what to do? Hell I dont know, but I am glad I´m not in the rule makers panths.

Nice to see that I'm not alone here

I'll ask the Gabester tonight if its possible to make a kind of 'choke of power' using a resistor, which will have to be soldered in the car, like you had years ago on 1/32 cars. (I don't know anything about electronics) Maybe this could be an easy way to make the Masers slower.
I/we should test then on how much powerloss is needed. I'd propose to only do it to the 1st 2nd and 3rd placed teams, cause (fortunately) not all 6 Masers ended up 1-2-3-4-5-6.

But yet again, I've offered testing for the organisers numerous times, but nothing was needed

My thoughts on a 2009 EEC for the cars is to do the car assignments like this:

The organiser (I volunteer ) puts every team on a specific model, Corvette or Aston or Maser etc etc. hereby looking closely at the latest achieved results like the Worlds 2007 and 2008, the last EEC and thier growing potential. When these assignments are done, post it on the net, and ask every team to reply if they agree with all assignments. Now, we being reasonable people should be able to make a fair assignment if all teams have a (small) say in what they race and what others race.

Just a quick and loose example:
Kremers Corvette/Aston
Kremers 2 Corvette/Aston
RFH 1 Corvette/Aston
SFRT Aston
Virage Maser
RFH 2 Corvette/Aston
Gecko Lambo/Maser
Franspeed Lambo
Kaitserari Lambo
ZMachine Maser
Badet Maser
DART Lambo
etc etc etc

It'll take some moving around and switching, but if we/I start this in time it should be no problem. Once as many team as possible are happy with the cars we'll start giving out the specific liveries on a model, this can also be done freely, some people are more attached to a certain livery than other people.

You must also remember that there is a GT2 class going her... And as some other also have pointed out, the overall standing in EEC is led by a GT2 car

You also have to think about the GT2 class. Today its only two types of cars the Ferrari and the Porches. Although the Porsche of Badet 2 was on the podium in Oslo I’m quite sure bad set up for the following Ferraries has something to do with that. Badet 2 did a great effort, and are good racers too but all things equal, if that’s possible at all, the Ferraris will be as dominant in GT2 as the Massas are in GT1.

Although my friends of Badet 2 are good racers and also know their set up, especially on our home track, my prediction is that they would have equal chances to a snowball in H*ll if they were put up against more well balanced Farraris in Belgium. With the penalty ballast (or a resistor) it will not be very fun at all for the Porsche.

Rolf

Thanks for a great race and event. Good to see you all again and meeting some new people

FU CK the thieves that is not cool in anyway. Nick and Fola have been working their asses off in order to make various parts ready, they sell them at a reasonable price - so just pay for the stuff you need. Nick had misplaced a complete Maser body in the Jaguar XJR-14 package i got. I could have kept it, but hell no, I of course returned it to Nick - should probably just have paid him another 150€....

On another note, equally as important, lanechanging rules: Marshalls move the cars, not teammembers!!

If we look at our WMR Jr. F430, there is no doubt that it suffered also from the bad setup decission made by myself. Of course both Rene and Oliver have only contested 3 international races so far, so they are also on a steep learning curve. We will try to make their car as stabel and easy to drive as posible and take it from there.

But Rolfs point about the Porsche´s relative quality compared to the F430 is well taken.

Nick´s suggestion of a resistor seems a good way to go, without killing the motor with too much weight. However if we cant even police whether the teams cheat with tire conditioner or not, how do we ensure that the resistor stays soldered in for the whole race??

Less rules makes for better racing in my book, so if something is not policeable/controleable it should maybe be removed from the rules.

I also believe that the top 5 is going to stay pretty much stabel no matter what we do. And that is because the engineering talent and driving talent of the guys and gals in the top 5 teams are huge!!

The rest of us just have to move ourselfs closer to their level, and this goes for both GT1 and GT2.

And just to illustrate that the Porsche in the right hands could prove much faster, I have this litle story:

In 2004 I think it was, at the IMCA Worlds Henrik and I had to drive two different 911s in JPs Lemans 1970 remake. I dont remember who built the first one we drove, but it was a shitbox and handled like crap. The second one we drove was built by Dieter Jens and was a real pocket rocket, and had Henrik and I had more driving talent that little car could have taken us to the top of the Franco Gianotti Cup!

My point?? Well, get the chassis and body engineering right, and the Porsche will be a sure winner in GT2.

Enough said, I will now shut my mouth, and start testing and testing and then test some more, to be more prepared at the next race!

See you soon.

cause if a team makes the effort of going to the pits, open their car, solder out the resistor, close their car and go back on track, this whole operation should be noticable by TC or others. Also cause, when the resistor is out, their car will be remarkably quicker then before!

On the 430 vs Porsche battle.
I think the 430 should be better to drive because of it's dimensions, however it's hard to tell after Oslo, because in my view with all respect, Kai should belong in GT1, he is a good and experienced builder, who knows the ins and outs of a slotcar well.
Then the 430 of WMJ, of which Pol is admitting he/they couldn't get their right setup. To be honest I don't know the guys of the second placed Porsche, and what their normal pace is/would be.
To have had a more fair beginning of the season, the organisation should have had some well known builder build both cars and test. But that's another 'what if'.

Hey everyboby...
First I will thank you all for a great weekend in Oslo and that you all came the long way to snowie Norway and we are very thankful for the positive feedback witch comes from all of you THANK YOU....
I`ll hope to see you all again next eehh...."summer" :-)
As for the to guys racing the Porsche who came in second they are up there with Glenn and me in national races. Maybe just a bit more unstable. With a better body "maybe Nick`s kind" and some more time testing, I think they would be even closer to Kai
Again thank you all... se you in Merlijn

Badet Raceway

The option of restrictors will be the best controlabel for the TC, Race director and all the other drivers.
And you dont have to solder anything in ore out of the car.

Hi guys,

thanks for everything. Special thanks to norwegian organizers. Oslo 12 hours was great meeting.

It was really strange to hear that somebody has stolen these kind of items of Nick. I have always trusted people in slot meetings. I even left my digicamera on the our table during practice session...

I also lost something. But this was my own mistake. I probably forgot the first pair of handout tyres to the tyre changing table (in canteen) on sunday morning. If somebody has seen pair of this kind of tyres with silver coloured Ferrari F430 rim inserts could you please bring back them to me. I will pay the postage. Tyres are not so necessary but I would need these inserts...

About weight rules. I just noticed that weight calculator give my car about 10 g lighter to Merlijin than in Oslo... I understand the minimum weight is same to all, but top guns have to use 3 x 5 grams under the bonnet. These means their center of gravity goes higher and weight distrubution goes more front. Very challenging to adjust the car

GT1 or GT2? I think Mika Salo is a good and experienced racer, who knows the driving of a racing car well. Despite of this he is racing in GT2

One question to Plafit guys. Could you please tell me who did sell you these Plafit brand carbon fibre chassis parts? I checked this site: www.plafit.de. I only found steel, aluminium and brass parts. I would like to use carbon parts also in MoMo, but MoMo don't make this kind of parts.

Best Regards

Kai Kivekäs
Scuderia Kaitserrari

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaitsu Hi guys, One question to Plafit guys. Could you please tell me who did sell you these Plafit brand carbon fibre chassis parts? I checked this site: www.plafit.de. I only found steel, aluminium and brass parts. I would like to use carbon parts also in MoMo, but MoMo don't make this kind of parts. Best Regards Kai Kivekäs Scuderia Kaitserrari

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaitsu One question to Plafit guys. Could you please tell me who did sell you these Plafit brand carbon fibre chassis parts? I checked this site: www.plafit.de. I only found steel, aluminium and brass parts. I would like to use carbon parts also in MoMo, but MoMo don't make this kind of parts. Best Regards Kai Kivekäs Scuderia Kaitserrari

Is there in fact anyone of the chassis manufacturers (plafit, shoeler ++++......) who produce their own carbon parts..?!

M-Racing have a range of original carbon parts.