Hi Mark,

The way I understand it, you are required to have the entire width of the front tire flat on thew tech surface, even with the Cambered fronts. (But, read on..)

This means the Scaleauto Fronts are too small, and you'd need to mount a larger profile Rubber or Sponge Front, and then true AT AN ANGLE, so that the front wheels present a flat surface when on the tech block. (However, it DOESN'T say this specifically, for the 430 Cars..)

Technically, this is a VERY challenging setup to do, because the outside of the wheel will naturally be higher than the inside of the wheel, and can also interfere with your clearance between the body and the wheel, or you end up with the front of the car sitting a little higher than you'd like.

If IMCA Tech does it's job preprly, and I agree, this might need to be clarified first, because if I read the rules correctly, the MIN Diameter of the fronts must be 25.5mm, and that would have to be measured on the inside of the wheels, with the Min width being 5mm, so the outside of the wheels have to be larger than the inside 25.5 mm..

So, to simply add a subtle wider track on the front of the car means the height of the body over the wheels will be negated, and could be a problem.
The other, safer option all round, would be to use the standard straight Ind Fronts, so the wheels won't need to be trued at an angle, and your clearance between the wheel and the body will be better, but your width will be smaller.. It's a difficult decision to make.

It clearly states under the FIA GT Rules, "Standing on the tech block the front wheels must touch the block over the full 5mm", but it DOESN'T say this for the 430 cars.. Does that mean it's ok to ONLY have the inner edges touching the track? ie: a flat wheel on a camber?? This would certainly help all the clearance issues, but, I don't know if the handling would be too good..

What do the Pro's say??

Cheers

Big Al

Hi Al,

Grinding the tires to the match the 3 degrees of the camber was also my initial thinking . . . but as you point, where is the min tire OD measured . . . and looking at it, I don't think the Hudy adjusts that much . . . so you freehand it? And then none of the old pros here could possibly think of what the advantage would be over the 0 degree independents -- if the contact patch is essentially the same. As you say, the F430 rules do not parallel the GT rules as to contact of the front wheels on the tech block. I have already sent a note off clarification several weeks ago to JPvR on this point . . . so it must be intentional. The top guns' are in Alsdorf wrapping up the EEC this weekend . . . very jealous . . . so we will have to wait for some comment. In the meantime I will post a second question.

Mark.

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Question 2 -- Filling in the motor box hole

The baseplate for the SLP is cut with a hole to fit the BISON . . . and we run the smaller PROSLOT can. I have seen a lot of the motor holes filled in completely . . . or in part . . . with brass plate. I assume that these various brass fill plates are being soldered in to the chassis . . . as the only F430 rule forbidding solder is the mounting of the motor. Do we have it right?

Mark Campbell
Scale Racing America

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Mark,

It's also possible to use the S24 Base Plate. This doesn't have a hole in it, and has almost identical dimenesions.

Regards

Al

Hi Mark,

If you make a contra holder for your motor, you can use the new holder also to attach the brass plate. Drill a whole through the contra holder and the brass plate to mount a mother and nut.

greetz

Henri

Starting to get some direction on the motor hole in the chassis. Still looking for some input on the 3 degree independent wheel mounts . . . and if the wheels are also ground at 3 degrees . . . and can this be done on a Hudy . . . and ????? Could use a little help on this mystery.

Mark

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Hi Marco.
I don't know how well you speak (or read) german, but you can find som info on the hudy/camber issue here:

http://www.slotracing-forum.de/forum/messages/113989.htm

Hi Raymond

Thanks. I have sent my order off . . . and now all the guys here will want to grind their tires But I am still trying to understand how it works? Hey Fola . . . you're one of the SLP top guns . . . I know how camber works on a 1:1 car . . . but I have seen some of the chassis you guys are running and they are sprung so hard there is barely any movement at all. Still thinking . . .


Mark

...that's all it does.

Come on guys, you are making way too much out of this cambered fronts stuff.
The only thing it does (compared to the non cambered independend frontaxle stubs) is that it increases your track width with 2mm.

A set of wheels with a ±25mmø and a 3˚camber will measure 80mm @ the top and 82mm at the bottom. That's it (besides that it looks good)

The downside of the independend front axle stubs is that they tend to move during a race. They tend to go to a toe out position. Not that it infleuences the "steering" that much but the wheels can start rubbing the body work.

I think the biggest question here is, does the whole surface of the tyre have to touch the track as in the GT rules? If not, it leaves the door open for some creative shaping of front wheels if using the flat independent front setup, which could also help increase the width.

Quote:

Thanks. I have sent my order off . . . and now all the guys here will want to grind their tires But I am still trying to understand how it works? Hey Fola . . . you're one of the SLP top guns . . . I know how camber works on a 1:1 car . . . but I have seen some of the chassis you guys are running and they are sprung so hard there is barely any movement at all. Still thinking . . . Mark

Guys, the cambers are not mysterious at all!

It are still hardered front wheels, which roll and act in the EXACT same way as a normal stance of the wheel. Indeed, in some cars it's beneficial cause it provides more room on the above side in the body, while still you can run you wished width at the underside of the wheel. Like on the F430.

It looks cool and realistic.

It's a bit harder to shape and sand to give them their 3 degree angle, but at least myself always put the finishing touches to any front wheel by hand. Here it's just the same thing. Just screw together your camber parts as a loose item, meaning only via the crossbar, the axles holder and those 'pyramid' alu blocks. Then during sanding the wheels, just fit them on the camberpart, and you'll see where you're going. It's really not that hard, and coming from me, who only made maybe 6,7 or 8 sets of front wheels in my slotracing career. Never any rear wheels
And they still have the same roll resistance, cause the 0 degree front wheels also have to touch the track by 5mm width, same as on the cambers.

Quote:

Originally posted by JustMe Guys, the cambers are not mysterious at all! It are still hardered front wheels, which roll and act in the EXACT same way as a normal stance of the wheel. Indeed, in some cars it's beneficial cause it provides more room on the above side in the body, while still you can run you wished width at the underside of the wheel. Like on the F430.

Hey Mark,

Pure technically speaking, the wheels should be the prescribed diameter on all areas of the wheel, BUT ( do I love those BUT's ) generally it means that the biggest diameter measured counts, and especailly on cambers that means the outer side of the wheel.

All this should be in the rulebook.
Where is measured the diameter of the front wheels?
Where is measured the total width of the front axle? above (minimum) or down (maximum)?
You can run with asymmetric wheels?
I think all this and the issue of a single chassis manufacturer must solve, not allowing the camber of 3 degrees

I read that differently Nick. And I see the Rulebook was mysteriously "fixed" to read 5 mm touching the track surface for the F430's.

The Rulebook says the MIN OD must be 25.5mm, so on cambered fronts, that HAS to be the inside of the front wheel, therefor the outside would naturally be a larger diameter. There's no way the outside of the fronts can be 25.5mm OD on 3' Cambered fronts, and the car passes Tech! Then the inside diameter would be less than 25.5mm..

Big Al

Hi Guys,

As long as I race the width of the front wheels is measured at the largest point (the outside). More interesting to me is how the front spur will be measured at the cambered wheels? At the widest point, the point where the wheel touches the tech plate or in the middle of the wheel?

Rules being made while we're building our cars

But hey, now it's written in the rules on the cambers.
I'm wondering what they are going to do with measuring, cause

I've made my first few copies of the 430 wheel inserts, and they are perfect. But like the originals, the model of the spokes comes out of the wheel. Meaning when measured over the wheels including the inserts, you will not pass TC, cause they'll say spur is too wide

I've had this happen before, and if this is gonna happen again, why take the effort of cutting and copying this insert??? And I simply don't believe there will be a set in the handout wheels, like the rules say. Or are you doing that with the molds I gave you Mr Fola?

Another personal note on these inserts. I was only planning to bring a FEW sets with me, and not a few hundred, just to let you know

By the way, in Alsdorf 5th position of Tamar and Gabe, was the first best finisher among the 3 degree camber guys, the top 4 used standard 0 degrees

@ ndw -not doing a hundred nothing!!
@ B. Al -Art6.5(d) ON CAMBER FRONTS - Inclination may never be more than 3°. The inner side of the complete wheel may be lower than the 25.5 mm sub art. 6.5.b, but only to make that the tyre is flat on the track over the complete 5 mm. Seen from above wheels must be covered entirely by the body.

when we get our handouts including inserts!

I see there's been lots of updates to the Rules then.. Thanks for pointing this out Fola..

B A